My Disputation With the Elders of Refining Fire Fellowship

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Settling Disputes With Sheep and Goats

RFF Elders; Kerrigan Skelly, Kevin Lovell, Tracy Bays

Disclaimer and Agreement.  I have have done everything possible to ensure the authenticity and truthfulness of what I have recorded in this testimony.  I hope the reader would recognize anyone  could; have a wrong perception, not understand, not remember properly, get chronology wrong, etc.  I hope the reader will also keep that in mind that would apply for every person involved in this.  The Lord has recorded all these things with motives, feelings, and secret things and will give us all an account on that Great Day. Let us be merciful one to another.

These testimonies have been released one or two testimonies per week until there was a complete communication of what has happened between the Refining Fire Fellowship elders and me and my family to about 32 trusted saints of God. They have reviewed this for several months for several purposes: 1. To give them enough time to read the testimony/s several times before proceeding 2. To give Refining Fire Fellowship a chance to hear what I am saying, respond, and hopefully repent.  3. To give the local, regional, and worldwide church time to absorb the information. 4.  To give the least esteemed among you an opportunity to judge    1 Cor 6:4  and learn from these things.   5. To give anyone considering moving to any home fellowship [including RFF]  an understanding of exactly how these things should be understood and applied.  6. To give the readers an opportunity to clarify and question; my family and I, other witnesses, and even the elders and men of RFF.  7.  To seek the Holy Ghost and Scriptures for understanding.

I have since August 2012 tried to give the elders an opportunity to repent of these things which have been done in an ungodly and unbiblical way.  All of this historical archive has been done with the motive of love toward them, and all of the families of our former fellowship in the hopes that there would be reconciliation between all parties to include our new son in law and daughter.

With all of that in mind, the Lord has led me to limited release this for public discussion among the saints of God.

ERRATA#1  12/01/16  With the reconciliation of two more families who came to us to hear our side of this matter and subsequently resigning from RFF, we have decided to publicly release this full testimony.  I will be doing a video explaining the change as the Lord has led me to mark these divisive men called the ‘elders’ of Refining Fire Fellowship soon.

ERRATA #2 05/14/17 Please pray for us as our son in law, and daughter seek reconciliation of our relations, thank you.  

The reader, that would be YOU,  agrees to a careful examination of this dispute within the local, regional, and world wide church of Jesus Christ.  This endeavor would be to edify the saints in regards to the Matt 18 process, transparency, and Rom 14.  These should be understood properly and applied to their local home fellowships in order to prevent future spiritual calamities such as this.  I would encourage you to comment within the blog, your thoughts, questions, arguments, etc.  I would also ask that you support all of your discussions with Scripture as this is the standard of truth from which the Christian can make any claim to wisdom and understanding.  I ask that before you contact RFF elders or any of the membership, that you hear the full testimony of what I have offered here that you may understand fully.  I humbly ask that everyone refrain from any rebuke videos, extended post threads on Facebook, or commentaries anywhere on this situation until the full testimony of all eight volumes have been heard, understood, and clarified by you.  Once you have completed your task of properly judging this matter, I would ask that you request to hear the elders side of this story, then to hear from each man of our former fellowship.  As holiness believers I am trusting that you will adhere to what I believe are biblical standards in these sensitive matters.  Saints, you may feel I have put too many conditions upon you in the hearing of the matter.  Keep in mind you don’t have to go further, if your conscience and will are dictating otherwise.  Also, keep in mind I have been praying, thinking, and writing about this for quite some time.  May the Holy Spirit teach all of us many things through this difficult trial.

Col 3:12-17  Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; 13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. 14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. 15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. 16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. 17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

If you are a born again believer in Christ as Lord and Savior.  If you testify that you live a life holy abiding in the Gospel of Jesus. If you believe that God’s Word has established to let the least esteemed among you judge.  1 Cor 6:4  If you are in complete agreement with these conditions above, let your yes be yes and click on the first of the links below. Thank you!

Volume I – History and Background

Volume II  – The First Family Shunned

Volume III – Struggles with Stumbling Blocks

Volume IV – Hindsight a Hard but Good Teacher

Volume V – Intemperate, Jealous, and Controlling

Volume VI – Answering Accusations

Volume VII – Evidences Examined

Volume VIII – Conclusions and Summary

 

 

RFR

 

 

Saints Splitting From Saints???

Saints Splitting From Saints???

 

27 Comments to My Disputation With the Elders of Refining Fire Fellowship

  1. David Fontaine says:

    Brother John, I’m standing with you,and will pray for the Lord to move in this situation. And if you can send me the password,if I understood correctly, then please do so. Sincerely Yours in Christ, David

    • johnmcglone says:

      Thank you brother David. All I am seeking here is for people to examine this, judge it righteously according to God’s Word, contact the fellowship to try and bring reconciliation, then pray for us. Thank you so much for your thoughts.

  2. Sara Nelson says:

    Hi, I respect both your preaching and Kerrington Skelly’s so I would like to know what is going on and to pray for your peace. I would like a password to read the blog.

    Blessings,
    Sara

  3. Dave L says:

    It’s a real shame. I’ve watched countless hours of the two of you preaching, including times where people have assaulted you and you had each other’s backs. You guys had some adventures the years, that’s for sure…

  4. Joseph Neigh says:

    Brother John, I’ve experienced the pain of a church split over non-essential issues in the past. I will be praying for both you and Kerrigan and for the Lord to bring resolution to this situation that glorifies him. I would like to contribute what I may to prayerfully and biblically judge the situation to the best the Lord enables me to.

    • johnmcglone says:

      Br. Joseph. I don’t think this is a non essential issue. This is what my former ‘elders’ called it not me. It is clearly a church function described in the Scriptures. To add to that would make them false teachers, thus one of the primary reasons I have been battling this for three years. I believe this to be one of the primary roots of the apostate church. For all holiness believers who are desperate for good fellowship, what is the common characteristic? You can not ask questions about doctrine or challenge the current tradition or thinking of the church or it’s teachers. This of course leads to too much control, when they should be serving and being an example not trying to control and manipulate the sheep. Paul commended the Bereans, but why not condemn them instead for asking questions?

  5. Mike says:

    My overall impression based on what I’ve read, seen and heard in your presentation is that RFF has an exorbitant amount of influence and control on the decisions and behavior of those in the fellowship, which is rather creepy.

    That the elders appointed themselves to be “the church” is simply wrong. According to the bible, the church (ekklesia) is all genuine believers, not a small, core group that hold exclusive authority. The whole basis of using Matthew 18 in a small home fellowship with a self appointed ‘church’ is flawed to begin with. The ‘church’ of Matthew 18:17 is not today’s church as we think of it, but the church that existed at that time Jesus spoke those worlds. It was the ekklesia assembly that consisted of all genuine believers from the time of the Old Testament until today.

    (Acts 7:36-38) “He brought them out, after that he had shewed wonders and signs in the land of Egypt, and in the Red sea, and in the wilderness forty years. This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. This is he that was in the CHURCH (ekklesia G1577) in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us”

    This word “ekklesia” is the same word Jesus used when He said….

    “….I will build my church (ekklesia)….”

    This is proof from the scriptures that the church existed before the day of Pentecost, even as far back as the Exodus.

    Under inspiration of the Spirit, the apostle Paul, a most learned Jew, affirms this when he said…

    1 Corinthians 10:2-4, “And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.”

    According to Scripture, the church therefore did not begin at Pentecost. It was INCREASED at Pentecost. The church began in the Old Testament with the assembly of believers of YHWH, who looked forward to the true Messiah of God, Christ Jesus. It is ‘believing Israel’. They had the same gospel preached to them that we preach

    (Heb 4:2), “we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did”

    and are they who put their faith in God’s promise of the Deliverer, in the hope of Messiah. It is because of their Messiah that we as Gentiles who believe are adopted into this family of God.

    Said another way, we should not view believing Jews as being a part of the church because they believe in Jesus, but rather it is we as Gentiles who are now a part of the church because we believe in Jesus just as the Old Testament saints and prophets looked toward the future Messiah.

    Though the word “church” of Acts 2:46-47 is found only in the KJV and not based on the better and older manuscripts available until after the KJV was published, it still remains that the number of believers being added were Jewish, not Gentile. It wouldn’t be until ten chapters into Acts (approximately 7-10 years after the day of Pentecost) that Gentile believers without a distinctly Jewish connection begin to be a significant part of the historical narrative.

    Later, Paul would reaffirm the Jew and Gentile’s unique solidarity in Christ. Thus, any claim that the church is defined as one particular gentile group or another, is false. The church already existed, long before the Roman Catholic or Orthodox or Coptic traditions of man began. It was a Jewish church.

    This should be evident to us when Jesus explained to His disciples how to resolve conflicts in Matthew 18:15-17, saying,

    “If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the CHURCH (ekklesia G1577)..”

    Many Christians believe that Jesus was addressing this teaching to a Jewish audience only, yet here He is calling them the church. Since the church — as it is taught by traditional dispensationalism — was not yet formed until after Pentecost, what was Christ referring to? The answer is simple: it WAS the church. The dispensational teaching regarding its post-Pentecost nature is wrong because scripture clearly tells us that the church existed in the Old Testament all along as Israel.

    Thus, when Jesus says…

    (Mat 18:17) “If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

    A dynamic equivalent to this would be Jesus saying “tell it to the entire assembly of genuine believers who have their origin from the time the law was given at Mt. Sinai….”.

    That’s how the disciples would have understood the term church (ekklesia) in the context of Matthew 18:17. Therefore, in the context of Matthew 18, the ‘church’ is not a small, exclusive home fellowship nor even a post-Pentecost church but instead, the entire group of genuine believers, the ekklesia assembly that has its foundation in the Old Testament. At the time Jesus spoke these words, that would have been a thoroughly Jewish assembly.

    The audio recording of Tracy and Kerrigan’s ‘rebuke’ seems more wrathful than in the interest of restoration. They seem more offended than motivated by love to restore you. This suggests to me that the ‘rebuke’ isn’t really a rebuke in the biblical sense but is personally motivated, prideful and therefore sinful.

    It would have been more appropriate to meet somewhere other than your home. Presumably they knew it would be in front of your wife and/or family? This seems to show a lack of self-control, which would be carnal, not led by the Spirit.

    Being a holiness fellowship, there are appearances to maintain. It doesn’t look good for a holiness elder to be in the wrong, so it’s understandable, given that even a holiness elder battles the flesh as much as the congregation, that fault needs to be found in someone else before a holiness elder would finds fault in himself. This isn’t the first time holiness elders have found fault in others and it won’t be the last. This is the risk one takes of being in a small group of non-Jewish believers who likely have a skewed understanding of Jewish scriptures and who don’t have, outside of their own claim of being an elder, any higher authority to appeal to for guidance.

    Also, individual members being so eager to call something “of the devil” and “sin” than to love seems more Pharisaical than characteristics of a first century style authentic follower of Jesus. Holiness comes from God, is corroborated by His word, then demonstrated voluntarily as a result of His Spirit in our hearts…. not our own well meaning but flawed assumptions that are later imposed on others, which in the end amount to little more than dead religion.

    Again, this is the risk of being involved in small fellowships with elders who are not accountable to others of higher authority. After awhile, human nature shows its ugly head, and the fellowship becomes more cultic and burdensome than one would have ever expected.

    Jesus said we would be known by our love for each other, not for engaging in witch hunts and dis-fellowshipping others when a teaching is challenged or questioned. Sure, there is a biblical warrant for disfellowship under certain circumstances. But such draconian measures as what has taken place in this situation seems to indicate insecurity more than proper Spirit-led authority.

    I will pray for reconciliation and restored fellowship, and repentance for all who are in disobedience.

    (Heb 4:13) And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.

    Pro 15:3 The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.

    We will all give an account.

    • johnmcglone says:

      Thank you Mike for your well laid out thoughts. I am praying about posts like these that much can be gleaned from to be in Vol 8 as additional testimony. This is my encouragement to all involved to post your thoughts here as a generally private discussion from which we could all learn. Thank you again brother.

  6. David Fontaine says:

    Brother John, Irregardless of the details,RFF decision to remove you from the fellowship, (correct me if I’m wrong) is both draconian, and unchristian. This tends to happen in small fellowships, where some feel they have a handle on truth. Believe me I believe in the holiness message preached by the members of RFF, but unfortunately they seemed to have forgotten to do justly, and to admonish a brother in Love.

    • johnmcglone says:

      Well as they have testified they have spoken to me about these issues ‘dozens’ of times. Which is not true. They have put me off on these issues dozens of times,but they did not sit down and speak through these things dozens of times. One time for about an hour and one time for about twenty minutes. Otherwise, they gave me the stiff arm. They then gave me a legalistic order not to talk about this issue with other members of RFF because this would be ‘divisive’. This is all clearly laid out in the testimonies. I would exhort everyone who has committed to viewing this, to read/hear the entire testimony. Then attempt contact with them as you should per Matt 18 as you are part of the ekklesia/church I am appealing to. This is all outlined on the first page of this testimony. Anything less is partiality which is part of this problem as well.

      I don’t believe your generalization of, “This tends to happen in small fellowship..”. It could happen and I think this over reach of authority is a root of the problem and eventually leads all moves of God, to destruction. Men come in and think they know better than God, add some ideas to God’s Word and the result is catastrophe repeated throughout history.

      Thank you for your time and patience in these matters. May God bless you.

  7. gesundelehre says:

    Could you also mail me the password? It’s very confusing to know that there’s just A THING that’s not right. I don’t want to judge not righteously. Thanks in advance.

  8. Victor Gutierrez says:

    If we could go back in time it would have been a blessing for brother John to become an elder. If brother John would have been in the meetings and decisions that were being made to help guide their fellowship I believe RFF would be in a better place today. I don’t know the details of the families that were being shunned, but I could see brother John trying to reason with these families. Or if their beliefs were not salvational then maybe they could have remained in fellowship? Again Im not saying I know what happened but I’am praying that this war comes to an end soon. In wars no one ever really wins. In life you can recoup money or material things, but a faithful friend that will tell you the truth (in love) regardless if that meant them losing your friendship that is priceless. This should be a two way door between brothers. It would have been nice that none of this would have ever come out, but either way God will be glorified in the end some how. Amen. I say we all pray that we forgive one another.

  9. Dora Gutierrez says:

    John 3:21, “But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.” I pray that the elders at RFF come out and address this situation otherwise they are allowing us to believe what scriptures says about people who choose to remain in darkness. John 3:20 “For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.” Continuing to pray for you brother, your family and your daughter. God bless you, continue persevering and being a watchman for the Lord.

  10. Mike says:

    John after reviewing everything and listening to the recordings it is clear what happened here John it is clear you were upset about the fact you were not an elder and that Tracy became one clearly you did not like the position Tracy has. Lastly you reaction by airing this all out and try to convince a lot of people who were not involved in the matter only speaks volumes to the fact you are in the wrong and its clear you wanted a meeting with the church to cause strife one last time before you left and had they complied you could have wrecked the fellowship permanently it is sad and shameful you have got to repent seriously.

    • Sean says:

      Mike,

      If you reviewed everything and listened well I’m quite surprised by your judgment without a clearer explanation.

      One thing you may be ignorant of is the fact that John is not the only one who had concerns with Tracy Bays being made an elder. I did also. I was not aware of John’s concerns also until after the fact in the past few months. Part of the qualifications of an elder is good repute from other people who know him and must run his household well(1 Tim 3:4-7). Now that does not mean we have had such issues which to necessarily condemn Tracy in these qualification… but I was not asked about Tracy’s standing in becoming an elder. I knew him for about 2 years at the time and there were personal concerns with how he was running his household, especially his monetary debts. Many of these things only revealed themselves as undisciplined areas of his life that were patterns and not just coincidental issues well after the fact. Mainly, John and I were giving Tracy the benefit of the doubt with these concerns and we likely should not have done so. That part is our fault for not speaking up.

      There are other more direct issues with Tracy being made an elder that would include a false prophecy and a false healing made by him. But these were not dealt with in a timely manner also by John nor me. Essentially Tracy had multiple issues with being placed as an elder, and the current elders at the time ignored[or assumed] one or more of the qualifications. This all ties into the belief that they were beginning to assume too much power–which leads into the next issue.

      So Mike, if you’ve heard everything. Do you believe the elders were upholding Matthew 18 correctly, or misusing it? If they were doing it correctly, can you show us how it’s their position to essentially take over the 3rd part of the meeting and kick others out without full testimony? If you don’t believe the elders were handling it correctly, then how would you suggest John should confront their abuse of power?

      Thank you

    • John McGlone says:

      Mike Sean and I are still looking for some good answers to Sean’s sincere questions after all this time thank you and God bless you

  11. Moke says:

    You look like a white-bread backwoods Charles Manson. I wouldn’t let you within 20000 yards of a church OR a school. I read your ‘testimony’ and it makes me sad that you didn’t receive adequate mental health care before being indoctrinated into extremism. Please don’t go crazy and hurt anyone, because it’s always guys like you who do that. You’re no better or worse than anyone else, God loves everyone. Have a wonderful mentally stable day, don’t forget to take your meds -smooches-

    • johnmcglone says:

      Mike, your judgments are very poor. Secondly, how I look according to your opinion is of no consequence. Thirdly, you are apparently a racist which God hates. What extremism are you talking about, loving Jesus extremely with all my heart, mind, strength, and soul as He requires? I am definitely better off eternally than most people who are going to hell fire forever. God has loved everyone at the bloody cross of Jesus Christ. Unfortunately, they won’t properly respond to His love with obedience to the Gospel. This is apparently your spiritual condition as well. Repent of your sin, which God hates, before He demonstrates His hatred for you by burning you in torment forever, and ever, and ever as He has threatened in the Bible.

      Love you too,
      John

  12. Matt says:

    Could you send me the password John? I’d like learn and pray about what happened to you and your family.

    • johnmcglone says:

      Sure, no problem. You have read and understood all the conditions above? I would encourage you to read again through it carefully and note them. A few believers have not lived up to their commitment to do so and have partially judged these matters unfortunately. Thanks for your interest in seeking the truth and what I trust will be your impartial and unbiased judgments. I look forward to hearing your thoughts and if you have any corrections for us from Scripture. May God bless you as you enter into this..

      John

  13. Sarah says:

    My name is Sarah. I am 19 years old and a preachers daughter. I am heavily involved in my church; spreading the word and teaching about Gods love and mercy he has given us and continues to give to everyone. I have an I have a love and a passion for God and our savior Jesus Christ. And I know well that God and Jesus loves me. That is in fact our motto and our church “God loves you no matter what.”
    While on Facebook this morning someone shared a photo of a sign that is from your ministry. I was alarmed to see what it said. “AMERICA GOD HATES YOUR SIN” it then continued to list sins, however it didn’t include them all because there wouldn’t have been enough room. Then at the bottom it says “HELL FIRE!”. Is this what your ministry teaches? Yes, I’m sure God is not happy with sin, but who is perfect enough to avoid sin? John 8:6-7 “They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone.”
    “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” 1 John 1:9-10
    And about your “HELL FIRE!” added to the bottom of your sign, in Romans 6:23 it says “For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
    There is no one in the world that is perfect. We all sin. And if you commit one sin, you’ve committed all sins. (James 2:10 “For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.”) No one is without sin. However, God is forgiving and loves us. God showed us his love when he gave his son. His son Jesus who laid down his life to take the beating for our sins and our wrongs so we will have eternal life.
    So before you cast stones at sinners and judge them, check yourself because im sure you aren’t a perfect and God knows you are not perfect.
    Lastly, just a tip. If your trying to reach out to people and persuade them to follow the lord don’t condem them to hell with a sign. Your sending the wrong message to people. Why would anyone want to come forward when you are making them feel like they don’t have a chance and they are hated by God? Yes, change is good and people should try to better themselves and sin less but first they must understand forgiveness and Gods love.

    • johnmcglone says:

      Hi Sarah, thanks for taking the time to write such a lengthy comment concerning our ministry to the lost. Before I give you some of my personal answers to the points you made, I would ask that you read and study this blog post in regards to open air preaching. I’d like to hear your thoughts on the article that is full of Scripture. Here is that post:

      http://www.jesuspreacher.com/openairpreaching/

      Regards in Christ,
      John McGlone, Jesus Preacher Ministries

  14. John n. says:

    There is no god. The earth is round. Darwins theory is true. There was no adam and eve. There was no jesus. Religion is a phony. Being gay is good. Homosexuality is good.

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